Water Route
Not planned
I would like to suggest that a canoe/kayak (or water) route option for those of us that would like to follow the water. I recently went into the Boundary Waters in Minnesota and and although I could track it during the trip, I wanted to plan my route first but my only options were Hiking, Cycling, Driving and straight line routes.
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In the cases where there are defined rivers (as opposed to bays, lakes, and larger bodies of water), it seems rather feasible, as many layers already have them as vector paths. Just as creating a route can snap to trails, why can't a route snap to a requested waterway? In the case of fishing, it's helpful especially at the planning stages to know the course of a river. Straight-line routes are a substitute to get us close, but no a pleasant one.
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Besides recording a route while paddling, I would find it useful to snap a route to a waterway that either automatically chooses say the widest stream or allows manual editing of a direction to take when a ‘fork in the river’ exists. Combine that with notification on phone or watch, audio and/or vibrate, when approaching such a decision split point in the route so, you know what direction to go without having to access phone to look. This may require a waypoint to have been previously marked when planning the route. The PocketEarth app can do something like this but the waterway must exist as a route (in OpenStreet Maps ?) and two possible routes must exist for the user to have chosen one from.
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Rivers are mapped in OSM, this should be a fairly easy thing to allow if they add Rivers artifacts to their import from OSM
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I'm sure glad I found this. I'm brand new to Gaia. I'm using it to plan out a long rafting trip on a remote Alaskan river. I could find the river on a map and click on it and highlight the whole thing, but I couldn't create a route on it; Gaia seemed to view a miles-long river as a single point on the map. I thought I was doing something wrong, that I just didn't understand how it worked.
Turns out it wasn't me. I would find Gaia immensely more valuable if I could map out a river route with it. As it stands I'll be able to kind of half-assed make it work for my purposes. But it sure would be nice if Gaia could recognize a river as a route like it does a highway or a road or a trail or a bike track.
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You’ll have to create your own route by connecting together a series of waypoints.
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I’ve been asking for this for years. No response from GAIA. The waypoint solution is what I’ve been using but it’s awkward and premium subscribers shouldn’t have to put a bandaid on what should be a feature in the app. I continue to wonder why this app ignores a significant market. What do they dislike about paddlers??
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I’m curious what the use for being able to create a water route would be. For hiking it would let you know if you wander off route. For water (rivers), the water itself basically serves to ‘keep you on route’ by definition.
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Re: "I’m curious what the use for being able to create a water route would be. For hiking it would let you know if you wander off route. For water (rivers), the water itself basically serves to ‘keep you on route’ by definition."
I'm guessing you don't spend a lot of time in a rubber raft on a river in the wilderness. What you say is sometimes true, actually true most of the time. Sometimes, though, often enough to be important, this is dangerously, even fatally untrue.
Sometimes rivers have "braids," side channels that peter out into nothing. Or they fork, one leading to your destination, one not. If you mistakenly take one of these braids or forks (which might look like the main branch of the river but isn't, much like a game trail running off a major hiking trail) in a driftboat or raft, you could find yourself out of water and stranded, maybe hundreds of miles from nowhere. If it was a trail you were on you could just retrace your steps and all you'd lose was time. But if you've got a a 15 foot rubber raft and hundreds of pounds of gear, or, worse, a 400 pound driftboat, you'd be well and truly screwed. You can't go forward and you can't go back.
You want to stay on the main stem of the river. And sometimes what is the main stem isn't always obvious.
I could say the same thing for a trail: "What do you really need a map for, anyway? Once you're on the trail, it's totally obvious, all you have to do is follow it, right? I mean, it automatically keeps you on route, right?" And yet people use GPS systems to navigate known, existing trails.
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Totally understand and have been in those situations kayaking. What I wonder in general on water is how does one monitor if on route? Continuously watch position on map? How if paddling with no hands free? Mount phone somewhere? If wait until get to an apparent decision point them need to take phone out and look at map.
If route split point is not obvious and you are not continuously on serving map then do you rely on app’s notification? I tried setting up waypoint at such decision points but Gaia didn’t always notify. And will you sense the notification (beep vibration tone etc)? Then there is the question of closeness to waypoint detection. If on water you could be many many feet from where you had dropped the waypoint to be notified. I’ve had Gaia muss a waypoint and then (on etch anyway) from then on all it does is tell my I am XXX feet from waypoint. ‘Go back to waypoint’.
What will the autoroute do to take you around a small island in a river? Will you be able to change route (add a waypoint?) to go the direction you want?0 -
Well, ALL of this stuff is new to me, so I'm not sure. So far I have no idea what the "app notification" even is, although what you've written kind of clues me in and is very encouraging.
But for my purposes it'll be much easier. We're taking a 10 day trip on a remote, 50 mile long river, camping and fishing our way to the ocean. So we won't be moving all the time, even most of the time, and will be able to check our phones periodically to know where we are. In anticipation of this I've marked some spots on the map to say "OK, the river splits a quarter-mile up ahead, so look sharp and take the NORTH fork."
All in all, though, even though GAIA doesn't let me "snap" to a river, I'm pretty happy. Going into this, all I thought I'd have is a hardcopy USGS map. Having GPS to verify where I actually am will be amazing.
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Footpath app can do some autorouting on waterways. Here’s some info I received by email from them. It seems possible that some limitations (for Gaia or anyone else?) might be OpenStreet maps itself? :
Footpath can provide audio instructions anywhere a junction has been mapped out in OpenStreetMap, and this usually includes forks in rivers and waterways. The navigation will alert you at one minute before a junction, and again at 15 seconds before. You can also trigger an audio notification on demand by double tapping your screen or using the playback controls on headphones, and Footpath will tell you how far you have until the next fork.
Keep in mind that waterways might not be mapped out as well as roads depending on your location, so there might be cases where small channels and tributaries might not be correctly connected to the main waterway network. In these cases, Footpath wouldn't know that there's a fork to alert you about. If you're able to auto-route down both forks, then Footpath should be able to give you an audio alert.
I'm not sure what types of rivers you're kayaking and whether you're paddling up or down stream, but I'd personally still be checking maps/memorizing the route beforehand and only rely on the audio alerts as a reminder, since the consequences to missing your "turn" while kayaking are potentially much greater than say walking or cycling depending on the route.
As for the maps on the Apple Watch—they are more rudimentary and only include the main route and small junction indicators when you zoom in, and they don't include details outside of your mapped route such as side waterways or bridges. Here's an example of what they look like: https://footpathapp.com/blog/footpath-4-2/ You'll be able to tell where along the route you are, whether you're on/off route, and generally what direction to head, but again they shouldn't be used as your primary map if there's a high consequence to missing a fork.
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More response from Footpath (but not able to paste images of the route he was describing):
Yeah, so if see a potential fork try first routing down the alternative. If Footpath is able to snap and create a route, it knows about the junction and can alert you.
I opened up your particular location on OpenStreetMap.org (in "Edit" mode), and it doesn't look like the rivers and tributaries are mapped well for routing. See how the small streams don't actually connect with the river centerline? Footpath won't know that this is an "intersection" and won't be able to alert you. Likewise, Footpath doesn't know that there's another inlet/bay on the right side of the screenshot, or that the river flows on either side of that little island.
Another example further upstream: Footpath will know about the junction between the Asset River and Fort Meadow Brook, but not that lagoon to the east or the little channels that run between:
Later this fall we'll be adding the ability to add custom waypoints and audio cues to routes, so in your case you could add cues along your route to hear during audio navigation.
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Yo Spartus:
Hey, thanks for all this. I'm really new to GPS software, I'd never used it until a couple days ago and have a ton to learn. But what you've posted here has given me a lot of potential resources as well as food for thought. Thanks so much!
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Re: "I’m curious what the use for being able to create a water route would be. For hiking it would let you know if you wander off route. For water (rivers), the water itself basically serves to ‘keep you on route’ by definition."
Sometimes the point is navigation, as has already been pointed out. Many times it's for planning. I did a 247 mile kayak trip on the Suwannee River recently. Creating a route from start to finish and then adding waypoints for likely camping spots would have been welcomed.
During the paddle, I'd glance at my progress a couple of times per day to make sure I was making the progress I'd planned on. Longer lunch/swim breaks are more relaxed when you know you're making good time.
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Re: "I’m curious what the use for being able to create a water route would be. For hiking it would let you know if you wander off route. For water (rivers), the water itself basically serves to ‘keep you on route’ by definition."
Indeed one of the main reasons we use GAIA is for planning so why not offer this feature? In addition to planning, I like to use it for record keeping. Sure, one can track the route in real-time but really, why does GAIA not see the obvious upside to implementing this?
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I would also like to see the paddle feature added.
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This 100% needs to be added.
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If the program started focusing on paddling, then campsites etc would start to appear.
I don't mind linking waypoints to create my route, but I find that the tracking doesn’t work in a canoe. At the end of my trip it will show that I have zigzaged hundreds of feet back and forth along my actual route. It is as if the satellites can't find me. I have no problem when I am walking. Support says it is my phone, but why in the canoe and not walking?
YES to Gaia adding paddle support.
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Agree this would be very useful. I assumed it was available and only found this discussion when I couldn't find it. Please add river snap to support.
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So sad river routes are not available. I will switch from GAI to another app if this is not going to be available. There is more to outdoor adventure than hiking, biking and driving. Please Please add snap to river. The route is already there for the Au Sable river, but I can't select it....
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+1 on this feature request, but seems it has been ignored for some time.
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Lol, I've been waiting for 2 years. Maybe someday!
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So, after 5 years of first requesting this functionality, it still hasn't been implemented?
I just joined Gaia after noticing that it did look like it created a route for one of the rivers I fish where the route successfully tracked along the river.I was very excited and about to order the premium subscription, but when I went to create another route for a different river and I put in a starting point and destination, it drew a straight line as if I could fly like a crow.
If I click on the river in the right spot, the app will highlight the river but when I go to create the route, the highlighted river will disappear and again, when I put in my starting point and destination, I get straight lines.
I guess it's due to this app only knowing or only allowing routes on trails which is funny because rivers have been used centuries longer than any of these trails.Curious, I went back to the first route I made on the other river and did notice that it slightly deviated from the river because unknown to me, there is a hiking trail that does follow the river most of the way and that is what was routed.
At least I saved myself from buying a premium subscription but now the search is on again for an app that is useful for river runners.
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RideWithGPS also cannot autoroute on waterways but you can manually create a route and add cut points anywhere. You can add a note at any cue point and that note will be announced and can be heard in earbuds or similar bone conduction devices. So you can preconfigure where to turn etc. and hear handsfree announcements when getting close to such locations.
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I requested this feature many years ago. I'm a premium subscriber. In lieu of an explanation or acknowledgment of the substantial interest, they simply sent me a note saying they would refund my premium payment. I kept my subscription hoping it would be added. Someday.
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well, it certainly appears like they don't keep up with requests on the forums so, maybe it's time to try flooding their social media pages with this request.
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I can't recommend this enough! PLEASE add this feature! As a whitewater kayaker, trying to trace rivers manually, often having them snap to nearby roads/bridges is a total pain. Thanks :)
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C’mon Gaia, we’ve been asking FOREVVVEEERRRR
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This feature would be an awesome add to the platform and based on the comments above has been a solid request for over 5 years. Come on guys.
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Every year this thread grows! I've been waiting for 3 years now. This feature is a must.
The work around is still to use another app to route through water and then import into Gaia. Caltopo is my go to. I definitely wish that Gaia would add this routing feature.
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